The Gay Debate

I recently came across this video by a fellow named Matthew Vines.   In his message, he debunks every Biblical argument against being gay.  It's kinda long at just over an hour but its well worth watching. 

You can find a transcript of Matthew's message by clicking this link.

Tenets of Unfundamentalist Christians

I came across a "What We Believe" post by Unfundamentalist Christians  on Facebook. There is a teen version which follows the original version.  Both were written by John Shore.  I post them here because they sum up, more eloquently than I, my beliefs.

1. Jesus Christ was God incarnate. He performed miracles; as a means of providing for the irrevocable reconciliation of humankind to God he sacrificed himself on the cross; he rose from the dead; he left behind for the benefit of all people the totality of himself in the form of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
2. Christ and Christianity are meant to be understood, appreciated, and experienced as galvanizing inspirations for living a life of love, compassion, fairness, peace, and humility. Period.
3. The Bible is a collection of a great many separate documents written by different people in different languages over thousands of years. Properly understanding both the letter and spirit of the Bible necessarily entails taking into account the historical and cultural contexts that so greatly inform so much of its text. The size, density, history and complexity of the Bible render unfeasible the idea that not one of its words reflects more man’s will than God’s. The spirit of God is inerrant; people—even those impassioned by the conviction that God is speaking directly to or through them—are not.
4. Anyone seeking to mix church and state has failed to understand the nature and proper role of either. Belief that all people are created equal and are deserving of equal protection under the law is foundational to all modern democratic nations. To incorporate the inherently exclusionary imperatives of a particular religion into the determinedly inclusive system of democracy would be to undermine the very spirit of democracy by pushing it toward a theocracy.
5. It’s not possible to read Paul’s New Testament writings and remain unmoved by his open heart, intellectual prowess, and staggering bravery. And yet Paul (who, after all, spent years zealously persecuting and having executed untold numbers of Christians) must remain to us a mortal man. More than reasonable, it is incumbent upon those who claim to seek the deepest knowledge of Christ to subject the words of Paul to the same kinds of objective analysis we would the words of any man daring to describe the qualities, purposes, and desires of God.
6. With regards to the written identity of God, the pronoun “he” is a necessity of the English language, not an actual anatomical designation. God is neither male nor female; God contains all of both.
7. The Biblical scholarship supporting the idea that Paul never wrote a word proscribing natural homosexuality is at least as credible and persuasive as the scholarship (if not typical Bible translations) claiming that he did. Any person who uses the words of Paul in the New Testament to “prove” that homosexuality is a sin against God has either never themselves researched the matter, or has simply chosen to believe one set of proofs over another. Though laziness is easily enough understood, we remain mystified as to why anyone who purports to follow Jesus would choose to condemn an entire population over choosing to obey Jesus’ self-proclaimed Greatest Commandment to love one’s neighbor as one loves oneself.
8. It is much more reasonable—and certainly more compassionate—to hold that throughout history God chose to introduce himself in different ways into different cultural streams than it is to believe that there is only one correct way to understand and worship God, and that the punishment for anyone who chooses any but that way is to spend all of eternity having the living flesh seared off of his or her bones.
9. “No one comes to the Father except through me” does not mean that in the afterlife only Christians can get into heaven. It means that Jesus/God decides who does and doesn’t make it in.
10. The question of whether or not hell is real is properly subsumed by the truth that a moment spent worrying if you’ll be with God in the afterlife is an opportunity missed to be with God in this life.
11. God’s will and intention is to forgive and teach us, not to judge and punish us.
12. The only person who should be actively endeavoring to convert non-Christians into Christians is God. Jesus does not need our help drawing people towards him. He does need, or could certainly use, our help in making sure that people know that they are, just as they are, loved.
13. Getting a divorce is painful, and if at all possible should certainly be avoided. But ultimately the act in and of itself is not immoral.
14. God does not want any woman “submitting” to anyone.
15. There were no dinosaurs on Noah’s ark; Jesus didn’t have a pet stegosaurus. An all-powerful God and the theory of evolution are not incompatible.
16. The single most telling indicator of a person’s moral character has nothing to do with how they define or worship God, and everything to do with how they treat others.

© John Shore, 2010

And here (by request), is a teen version of this document:
Here’s what we Unfundamentalist Christians think:

1. Jesus Christ was, and is, absolutely real. He performed miracles (duh: he was God); he sacrificed himself on the cross so that everyone could be forever reconciled with God; he rose from the dead; he left behind, for everyone, the Holy Spirit.
2. Christianity is supposed to be all about living a life of love, compassion, fairness, peace, and humility. That’s it.
3. The Bible isn’t just one thing. It’s a bunch of writings done by a ton of different people over about a zillion years. It’s poems, songs, history, allegories … the whole thing is just crazy dense. To really get whatever you’re reading in the Bible, you have to know something about whatever time and culture that part of it was written in. Also, the people who wrote the stuff that eventually made it into the Bible were just people. Through the Holy Spirit, God was definitely working through them as they wrote. But it only stands to reason that not every single word that made it into the Bible is exactly what God would have texted, or whatever. People who make the actual words of whatever translation of the Bible they’re looking at more important than the message of the Bible are totally missing the point.
4. Church and state should be separate. Fair is fair.
5. Paul rocks, no doubt. He’s the best. But it’s Christianity, not Paulianity.
6. God’s not male or female. He’s both. He’s all. People who have to have God be a “he” need to let it go.
7. The only way to think being gay is a sin is to never actually know any gay people.
8. No one religion contains all of God.
9. Where in “No one comes to the Father except through me,” does it say you have to be a Christian in order to get into heaven?
10. If you’re worried too much about the afterlife, you’re not worried enough about this life. Living a life of love means not having to worry about hell.
11. God wants to forgive and teach us, not judge and punish us.
12. God can handle converting people. Our job is to love people.
13. Divorce completely sucks. But the idea that God wants anyone to continue suffering in a hopeless, damaging marriage is ridiculous.
14. God doesn’t want women “submitting” to anyone.
15. Evolution being true doesn’t mean there’s no God. The two aren’t incompatible.
16. What really matters most about a person isn’t how they define God. It’s how well they treat others.

© John Shore, 2010

Marriage Equality Rally

This weekend  I attended my first ever marriage equality rally.   The rally was held on the 8th anniversary of the Australian Federal Government, (with lots of happy backing from the opposition party) adding a definition of Marriage within the Marriage Act 1961 (Australia) which reads  “Marriage, means the union of a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, voluntarily entered into for life."

The definition was added to the Marriage Act to safeguard against Australia adopting same sex marriage because it was being debated in other western countries.  Back in 2004, same sex marriage wasn't high on the public conscience and wasn't really thought of as a civil or human right as only a very small minority of Australian citizens were identified as GBLTI.

I've stated several times that I would love to see the definition changed to read "Marriage, means the union of two consenting adults, to the exclusion of all others, voluntarily entered into for life"  

I wanted to walk my talk and was a bit nervous as I knew no one at the rally.  About 300 were in attendance which was great as the weather was atrocious. (It was cold, wet and the wind was blowing a gale)  We are also in a regional city whereas the major cities had thousands in attendance.

I stood at the back of the room while were were inside and held my little sign. I was bit nervous and asked one of the fellows is that was the place for sign holders as I was feeling self conscious sitting in the row with my little poster.

 He warmly welcomed me and said "Jesus would be proud of me"  I replied, "If this rally was held in Jerusalem in Jesus' time, he would be there".  No one said a negative word about any other person at the rally.  It as a really uplifting and encouraging meeting and I was glad to be part of it.

After lots of speeches we went outside for the group march.  We marched up the main road to the sounds of cheers and car horns beeping in support.  On the walk we chanted "Gay, Straight, Left, Right, Marriage is a civil right", "Two Four Six Eight, don't assume your kids are straight","Hey Ho, Hey Ho, Homophobia's got to go!"  and of course "What do we want?  Marriage Equality!  When do we want it? Now!"  We stopped in front of Customs House, a local landmark, for more rallying cheers and photographs.   People happily chatted and caught up with their friends after the official part of the rally was over.  Everyone was smiling and the camaraderie was palpable.

I had so many positive comments about my sign and I felt warmly welcomed by all at the rally.  I wondered if the shoe was on the other foot...if an openly gay person came to my church would they be as welcomed?  Maybe but then would they be accepted for themselves or expected to conform?.  No one tried to tell me my faith was wrong but would an openly gay person in church get the same respect?  A good question.

I posted the photos of the rally to Facebook and My gay friends made a fuss about me being there but very few Christians commented or even clicked 'like' on any of the photographs.   I can understand that some may be afraid what their friends would think if they 'liked' my pictures but for the mature Christians I can't accept that reason.  I am guessing their stony silence speaks volumes for them.

I am really glad I went to the rally.  I made my stand and my presence there may have softened some hearts.  I have sent messages on the Rally's Facebook Page thanking everyone for welcoming me and I also thanked the organisers.  Amongst all the photos was a picture of me with my sign with a positive comment posted underneath and lots of 'likes'.

Jesus said that we should treat others as we would like them to treat us.  If positions were reversed and my marriage was made invalid because I am a Christian, then I would hope that others would stand up for me.  

I am humbled and honoured to have been a part of God's plan to show love to all people.   I read a quote the other day "I'd rather go over the line and be too radical in showing God's grace and love to others than not radical enough." by Jon Klinepeter.

That quote sums it up.

God sees our hearts but others see our actions. When our actions line up with our hearts, the world will see who we really are. When our actions and our hearts line up with Gods heart, then the world will see God. May all of us have hearts that line up so closely with Gods heart, so much so, that the world may see Him, and in seeing Him, know their true worth in his sight.

I love old movies

I love old movies.  I especially love old musicals.  When my boys were little, they would scour television guides and find films they thought I would love.  Their criteria was if the movie was so old that it was in black and white, mum would really enjoy it.  One day, my eldest came to me and said "Mum, you would love this movie.  Its so old all the actors are dead now!" 

The other day I was watching "Singing In The Rain" on television.  I have seen this film so many times I could almost quote the lines.  I knew all the songs off by heart and was singing along.  About two thirds the way through the film, there was a scene where Gene Kelly sang "Gotta Dance" and he tapped danced until Cyd Charisse came along and they dance together in grace filled ballet where she was supposed to be a bride with a long train.  I was mesmerised, not just because of the beauty of the dance but because I had forgotten all about this scene.  


How could I forget about a scene in a film I had watched more than a dozen times?  I was a little shocked about it and wondered why.  The ballet was at odds with the rest of the film with singing and tap dancing, so it should have stood out in my memory.  

I spent some time thinking about it and I came to this conclusion: Sometimes, we get so caught up in things that we are used to and when a situation arises which is at odds with what we expect or know, we can dismiss it or reject it outright.

In particular, Christians like and accept things that sit well with us but if we hear teachings that challenge us, we reject them as wrong and maybe even heresy.  

I spoke with my minister about this as I was struggling with a message I had heard.  He simply said sermons or homilies as he called them, are not meant to make us comfortable but to make us think.  I didn't go away happy because I wanted him to tell me I was right in my opinions. 


He didn't say as much but meant when we hear a message we should think about it, research, read the bible, pray, talk to each other and see whether our thinking should be challenged or confirmed.


You wouldn't go to a cafeteria and expect everything to be pre-chewed by the chef, so why should we expect the same from our ministers and pastors?  As church goers, do we spend that time in prayer and listening to the spirit within us or do we want everything spelt out for us and told how to think?   Does that mean we shouldn't trust our teachers?  No!  God has placed those teachers before us  to lead us and feed us.  However, we shouldn't rely on them to  pre-chew our food.


This week, if someone says something that we feel is wrong doesn't sit right with us, we should take what they say and really decide whether we agree or disagree instead of parroting words we have heard from the pulpit.  There is nothing wrong in saying,"I'm not sure if I agree with you on this.  You've challenged me and I'd like to think about it and then come back and talk to you about it."  Yes, its scary but we are allowed to think for ourselves.  We should never give up the right to think for ourselves.

The dance we perform might not be as graceful as Cyd Charisse and Gene Kelly with long flowing trains, and we may wobble and fall over but it will be memorable and authentic and our dance, the one God has choreographed for us.

Who is qualified in Gods sight?

In my Anglican Church each week, we have four Bible readings.  I write down whatever jumps out at me from each reading, usually a strong sentence or two from the sermon and then see what happens from there... I will start by giving you the reading and then in italics the passage, verse or message that jumps out at me.

The readings for today:-

2 Samuel 5:1-5, 9-10

 And he (David) became more and more powerful, because the Lord God Almighty was with him. Vs 10

Psalm 148

Let them praise the name of the Lord,  for his name alone is exalted  Vs 13

2 Corinthians 12:2-10

  “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness Vs 9

Mark 6:1-13 

They(the disciples) preached with joyful urgency that life can be radically different; right and left they sent the demons packing; they brought wellness to the sick, anointing their bodies, healing their spirits. Vs 13

The Pharisees & the people disqualified Jesus as a teacher but God qualified him.

The church loves to disqualify people but God qualifies them because of Jesus' qualification.

He who is set free is free indeed. (So if the Son sets you free, you are free through and through) John 8:36

 

Jesus shed his blood, he took our transgressions, our sins, our misdeeds and our failings onto himself of the cross.  He gave it all up for us.  He took our yuckiness and in turn gave us his righteousness and qualification.

Who is qualified? Those who are righteous and forgiven and those who are loved. 

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.  

John 3:16,17

God qualifies those who He loves and brings those to His heart.

And the most amazing thing: Even when people don't want to know Him, God still blesses them.

Jesus' Unexpected Presence

In my Anglican Church each week, we have four Bible readings.  I write down whatever jumps out at me from each reading, usually a strong sentence or two from the sermon and then see what happens from there... I will start by giving you the reading and then in italics the passage, verse or message that jumps out at me.

The readings for today:-

Acts 4:2-37

Vs 3:  With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all  (NIV)

Psalm 133

Vs 3:  It's like the dew on Mount Hermon flowing down the slopes of Zion.
   Yes, that's where God commands the blessing, ordains eternal life.(TM)

1 John 1:1 - 2:2

Vs4: We want you to enjoy this, too. Your joy will double our joy! (TM)

Vs 3 & 4: I write this, dear children, to guide you out of sin. But if anyone does sin, we have a Priest-Friend in the presence of the Father: Jesus Christ, righteous Jesus. When he served as a sacrifice for our sins, he solved the sin problem for good—not only ours, but the whole world's.  (TM)

John 20:19-31

Vs 31: But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (NIV) 

Jesus Christ Superstar, Are you who you say you are?

Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Who are you what have you sacrificed?

The disciples were scared.  They locked themselves away with each other.  It wasn't until Jesus appeared amongst them that they were joyful again.

Its easy and normal and natural to doubt unless you see something first hand or have an experience of Jesus and His Lordship and believe God does love us enough to come and meet with us. 

The disciples were sitting - comforting each other and probably planning on going back to their old lives until Jesus came in to see them.  Jesus came into their presence!! These fellows were so worried about their lives, they locked themselves in.  Jesus broke through to them!!

No matter what we are locked into, Jesus can come into our lives. He can still breathe on us, no matter what we do or where we are.  We don't need to bend over backwards, pray a certain way or even for hours on end. We just have to be us.

Thank you Jesus, that you come to me when I least expect it. You breathe on me when I am at my weakest & you are real.  Please, Jesus come to me, breathe on me and fill me with the Holy Spirit once again.  AMEN

Are Christians self satisfied?

Are Christians self satisfied?  A while ago I would have said no but now I think maybe we are.  And I wonder if that is how people see me?  Or maybe, that is the truth about me. 

Today it is Easter Sunday also known at Resurrection Sunday.  Its the day Christians around the world celebrate Jesus resurrection from death. 

This day means different things to different people.  I had a look on Yahoo Answers and some said it means chocolate, a day off work, extra work at their restaurant, annoyance at the loud church across the road and a couple said annoying self satisfied Christians.

You would think it was the opposite. You'd like to think it as the opposite.  The very people who are called to care for the poor, to love and treat everyone equally and to walk humbly with God are seen as self satisfied.

To he honest, I'm pretty sure some of the Christians in the western world might very well find themselves self satisfied, as we  have a tendency to think that we have it all together because we have Jesus. We puff our chests out and hold our heads high because we made 'the decision' to follow Jesus and if we can quote the Bible back to front, why shouldn't we pat ourselves on the back?  Have we  forgotten the only reason we can do any of it is because God loved us first?  He is the one who opened our eyes about Jesus.  He is the one who helps us each day to follow Jesus.  He is the one who brings to mind which verses of the Bible relate to each particular moment.  We commemorate the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and we have forgotten the truth that it is only through the blood of Christ we can do anything.

Recently a Christian friend on Facebook (whom I will call 'S') posted a link The Best Case For the Bible NOT Condemning Homosexuality by John Shore, which I thought was very interesting.  

“Compassion for others is the cornerstone of Christian ethics. The Bible is the bedrock of the Christian faith. God would never ask or expect Christians to choose between the two.”

God does not ask us to choose between compassion and faith in the Bible.

Christians are increasingly divided over the issue of the acceptance and inclusion of gay persons into the church. The debate itself is usually framed as essentially pittingthe Bible, on one hand, against compassion and social justice on the other. Our Christian hearts, runs the (usually impassioned) argument, compel us to grantfull moral and legal equality to gay and lesbian people; our Christian faith, comes the (usually impassioned) rebuttal, compels us to cleave, above all,

to the word of God.

I read through the article and then I shared it on my Facebook wall. Several hours later, when I went back to Facebook,  I found one positive comment by a non church goer and a comment by someone who said that I should read the comments he made on the Facebook wall of 'S'.  I went to his wall and under the article was a whole list of negative comments and a smattering of positive comments, mostly from non Christians, non church goers and the mother of 'S'   Of course, the negative comments were couched in 'christianese' and loving  statements.

To say I was shocked is an understatement. 

After reading the comments, I would understand why we are seen as annoying and self seeking.  

For hundreds of years churchgoers have been repeating the same things the church has taught without really thinking about it any further or even deciding whether or not they believe it for themselves.  A few men have taken a handful of verses and gave them an 'iffy' translation and meaning to support their own viewpoints. To be truthful, anyone can take a couple of verses out of the Bible to support any of their viewpoints. For instance, if you were a mass murderer, you could use the verses about Samson taking a jawbone of an ass and killing a thousand men. 

Jesus would have walked and known people who are same sex attracted and yet not one condemning word against them is recorded in any of the gospels. In fact, the only people Jesus condemned where the Pharisees who heaped rules and condemnation upon the common people. Jesus said these Pharisees were 'white washed tombs'...clean and pretty on the outside but full of dead and rotting flesh inside. 

At Easter,  shouldn't we be focussing on what Jesus did for each of us on the cross instead of ripping into someone else because they live differently to us?   

How can we forget that with every stripe of the cruel whip that removed flesh from Jesus' back, God's condemnation was removed (Romans 8:1) ; with every thorn that was pressed into the flesh on Jesus' head  the weight of God's rejection has been removed (Zechariah 10:6)and with each strike of cruel nails into Jesus' hands, our names were forever tattooed into the palms of God (Isaiah 49:16).   How can He ever hate the ones for whom God sent His Son? 

I really did appreciate this article that 'S' has shared on Facebook. Whether you agree or not, that is not my problem. However, in the words of Jesus himself when, in John 21 when Peter asked about John's future said “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” In other words, stop sticky beaking into others business because that is between me and him, our business is between you and me.

Quite a few years ago I read an article and I can't remember who wrote it but he said that Christians are seen as people who get together and have meetings and complain about everything.  I guess its true in the most part but sometimes I am ashamed to be called a Christian when this is the way people see us..

To finish up, I would like to add the last word by 'S's mum which she posted at the end of all of the comments. I couldn't have put it better myself. 

To those who have been hurt by those who call themselves Christians, I apologise. I implore you to seek God and find out who HE is and not settle for the tarnished  reflection people sometimes give of him. God isn't like those people. If you have been treated badly by people , please don't attribute that to God, God is not like that. He loves you with an everlasting love. There is nothing you could do to make him love you more and there is nothing you can do to make him love you less. 

He offers you love, love and more love.